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 shinerPrivate First Class Posts: 6 |
# Thread - 2016-04-13 at 2:00 PM
I hate to do this in such a public way, but I was unsure how else to approach the subject. I feel like the admins need to have a talk with Meagamoo1996 about her admin style and attitude. The reason I say this is because she approaches her admin duties in an adversarial way which is not, I believe, advantageous to a good player experience when she is on. Many times she dares people to "challenge her" and belittles people for the slightest of mistakes. The most recent examples that I witnessed were during the evening on 4/12/16. The first example occurred on the Castle map. There was a player who had his pistol drawn for the slightest of moments outside. He did not fire at anyone with it and quickly apologized for having it out. That, in my opinion should have been the end of it. However Meagamoo1996 would not stop hounding him about it and how he "should know the rules" and just kept on him about it for nearly 5 minutes of gametime. The player continued to apologize and state it would not happen again. Meagamoo1996 simply would not let it go. Finally, in frustration the player said he was leaving. I don't want to mention the player's name, but he is someone who plays on the server a lot and it respected. He made a mistake, admitted to it and wanted to move on but Meagamoo1996 would not drop the issue and eventually her doing so caused the player to leave. The second example was on the Dome map. A player did not realize it was a shotgun only map. This, in my opinion is understandable since that is a new thing for OTAC. He apologized and dropped a nade so that he could respawn with a shotgun. Meagamoo1996 attacked him relentlessly about his mistake and belittled him for not knowing the rules. The player apologized again, but Meagamoo1996 would not stop calling him out and attacking him for not knowing the rules. Honestly it was a simple mistake and he was not the only person that map to start off without a shotgun. I made the same mistake and quickly ate a nade so I would respawn with the correct class. The player that Meagamoo1996 was calling out eventually left as he said he had enough of her treatment. I couldn't blame him and left a short while later myself. Though these are the two most egregious examples from last night, they are not the only ones from my gaming session. From the time I logged in and began playing Meagamoo1996 was coping an attitude with people. Several times Meagamoo1996 would start belittling people or accusing them of various rule infraction. I was even called out for camping when it was obvious I was not. Another OTAC member even commented that I was not camping but Meagamoo1996 continued to say things about me doing so. I chose to ignore her, but others did quit playing because of the attitude. Again, I hate to bring this up in such a public way, but I felt it needed to be addressed. Since beginning play on your server I have seen this sort of action out of Meagamoo1996 when she is on the server and believe it to be unacceptable for an admin to behave in such a manner. Thank you for your time. Shiner Last edit by shiner at 2016-04-13 at 2:02 PM (3x Edited)
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I  Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 1 - 2016-04-13 at 2:18 PM
Ok first one was noobville. He knows our rules. That's why I got frustrated. Second one I told everyone next one was a shotgun map. I scrolled the rule several times and they ignored it. But go ahead. State you opinion. If other admins don't like it. I will leave. Simple. I'm not needed here. That's fine. |
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| shiner Thread author Private First Class Posts: 6 |
# Answer: 2 - 2016-04-13 at 2:38 PM
Since you mentioned his name, yes it was Noobville in the first example. There was never any debate about if he knew the rules. He even admitted he made a mistake and apologized. You just wouldn't let it go and kept on him until he left in frustration. There was no need for that. Were it the first time I have seen it happen I wouldn't have said anything, however that example is just one of innumerable ones that I have witnessed. As for the shotgun map announcement, I didn't hear it announced either as when you did so it was the end of a map and many people were talking. Not exactly the best time to make an announcement. By the time the next map started there were at least three people, myself included, who started the map with something other than a shotgun. It was a mistake and the person you jumped on out it apologized and changed classes. Again, you would not let it go and just kept hounding him about his mistake to the point he became frustrated and left after less than five minutes of gameplay. My suggestion to you is to stop coping such an attitude and "looking for a fight." I have seen you do it too many times and it is not, in my opinion, acceptable behavior for an admin. If someone is breaking the rules, deal with it. If they apologize then accept it and move on. In my opinion you seem far too intent on wielding your authority as an admin and abuse the position to the detriment of the server. At my count you ran off at least four players last night due to your attitude. Just my $.02 and it is up to the other admins on how to deal with the situation, but I know I am not the only one who feels this way. |
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 3 - 2016-04-13 at 2:43 PM
Who did I yell at for using a shotgun. I do not recall kicking anyone for not using a shot gun. I scrolled the rules and left it at that. i was eating that map. So yes. Let me take time away from me eating to yell at someone. No. I'm not going to do that. I'll scroll the rules. Tell people it's a crouch map again. That's all I did that map. Last edit by Meagamoo1996 at 2016-04-13 at 2:44 PM (1x Edited) |
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 4 - 2016-04-13 at 2:50 PM
And no. When I was telling everyone that it was a shotgun only map next it was the end of castle and no one was talking. If they didn't hear me it's because their voice chat is off. Last edit by Meagamoo1996 at 2016-04-13 at 2:51 PM (1x Edited) |
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| shiner Thread author Private First Class Posts: 6 |
# Answer: 5 - 2016-04-13 at 3:16 PM
2016-04-13 at 2:43 PM - Meagamoo1996: Who did I yell at for using a shotgun. I do not recall kicking anyone for not using a shot gun. I scrolled the rules and left it at that. i was eating that map. So yes. Let me take time away from me eating to yell at someone. No. I'm not going to do that. I'll scroll the rules. Tell people it's a crouch map again. That's all I did that map. I would rather not say the name since they may not be on here to talk about it themselves. You did not kick him for it, you just wouldn't stop harassing him about it so he left. The guy never even killed anyone. He realized his mistake, admitted to it and apologized and then committed suicide by nade to change classes. It should not have been a big deal. In fact I did the same thing. The only difference being I never said anything, just realized what was going on, ate a nade and respawned with the correct class. However, just as you had done with Noob on the Castle map you would not let the mistake go and kept going on and on about it. The player in question finally, after several minutes, stated he had enough of the way you were treating him about it and was going to leave. He had played the previous three maps without issue and is someone who, though not a regular, is on the server from time to time and is a quality player. You may have been eating, but you did more than just scroll the rules. You were speaking in chat and kept telling him he should have known the rules, each time he would apologize and you just kept on him about it. You asked him at least twice if he could even read and then wondered out loud to yourself why you bother making announcements or scrolling the rules if people are just going to ignore them. It is why I eventually left as well because I was tired of listening to you harp on someone about a simple mistake just as you had done to Noob earlier. Again, I did the exact same thing on the shotgun map. I did not hear you at the end of the previous map as there were indeed other people talking. I didn't know the next map was shotguns only. That's such a new thing on the server I am sure many people make that mistake and have to change classes. It shouldn't be a big deal and I'm sure it is not with the other admins. In fact I was just playing a short while ago when a player used a pistol while inside to shoot someone outside, MrMackeyMkay let him know that was against the rules. The player apologized and MrMackeyMkay's response was "NP, that's how we learn" and that was all that was said. That is exactly how an admin should behave, not by continuing to harass and belittle someone as you do. Last edit by shiner at 2016-04-13 at 3:16 PM (1x Edited) |
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 6 - 2016-04-13 at 3:18 PM
It scrolled in bright colorful letters at the end of castle, it was said and I scrolled it again. I do not recall harping on someone on Dome. But if you say I did. I obviously must've. |
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 [duck]lola_brenntCommander  Posts: 368 |
# Answer: 7 - 2016-04-13 at 5:07 PM
Quick thoughts of a duck... Shiner... u look like a a player, every admin want s to have playing on his server... ...but u also look, like u never ever have done any admin work. Well.. Meghan may not be the best admin of the world, but she does her work very good, in my point of view... and... Meaghan knows a lot about the players and their behaviour/history on the server... and some need to learn things only by getting appropriate treatment... they should be glad, that i m not an admin...  Reading ur posting makes me think, that Meaghan is making every decission on her own... i experieced, that most of the decisions of the admins are well coordinated... sometimes we all can see consequences of the decissions and sometimes we can t see consequences, because consequence is to do nothing. (my very first thought was ur trying a little bit of 'divide and conquer' between the admins... sorry if this sound rude... but it was one of my first thoughs... just to be honest) And why a player leaves the server (or doesnt...) u ll never know, until u ask him... I ve got my own personal experieces (and questions...) with that... . BTW... names dont matter... tell me a rule that has been broken (and the way how) and even i m able to give u severall names (even of regulars...) who are candidates for playing this way Bert... P.S.: Admining is hell... Last edit by [duck]lola_brennt at 2016-04-13 at 5:31 PM (1x Edited) |
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| shiner Thread author Private First Class Posts: 6 |
# Answer: 8 - 2016-04-13 at 7:29 PM
Thanks for your post Duck. I have been an admin before and it is not fun work. It can suck the fun right out of playing the game, which is why I stopped doing it. I see your point about divide and conquer and how that could be perceived, but that is not my intent. I have held my tongue for quite some time but last night put me over the edge where I felt I had to say something. Again, had last night's behavior been something I was witnessing for the first time or an outlier in Meagamoo1996's admin style I could have let it go. However it was not and that type of behavior, in my opinion, by an admin can kill a server faster than just about anything else. I love playing on the OTAC server and want it to be the best environment possible. Most of the time it is that type of place, but I have noticed when Meagamoo1996 is the lone admin on the server it quickly goes downhill. Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut as I have in the past. I was just so bothered by the way Noob and the other player were being spoken to that I felt moved out of my previous inaction. I just don't like to see players abused in that manner. That is not to say I want to see admins abused either, far from it, I just feel like what happened last night was so far outside the boundary of acceptable behavior that something needed to be said. It was, in my opinion, not only rude, it was also an abuse of authority. A power trip if you will. |
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 9 - 2016-04-13 at 7:37 PM
No a power trip would've been banning Noobville for constantly breaking the rules. I called him out on his error because he was encouraging one of his teammates to use his pistol to jump the gap. Noobville is a regular, who we have had several issues with "pushing" of the rules. I could've banned noobville for a day. But I didn't. I called him out on his mistake, then he argued with me on the clarity of the rule. You didn't point that part out, because it does not help your argument does it? Noobville knows our rules, I should not have to call him out for his pistol outside. Our rules are very clear that pistols can not be outdoors. We had a disagreement, it was not just me that was going on about this, but someone had to clear it up for Noobville. So it just happen to be me. I know our regulars. I wouldn't have done that to a new person. But you obviously don't know that. It goes down hill when I am on? I haven't noticed. But at the same time I am on past Midnight est. when normal people go to bed. It's not me that push people out of the server. But I'll keep that in mind when I am the "lone admin on" I'll just leave. You guys can handle the hackers and rule breakers by yourself right? |
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| shiner Thread author Private First Class Posts: 6 |
# Answer: 10 - 2016-04-13 at 8:15 PM
Noob never argued with you. He apologized and freely admitted the reason he had it out was to see if it made any difference in jumping the gap. You kept grinding on him about it and he apologized multiple times. Never did I see or hear him argue or try to deny that he made a mistake. Rather every time you got on him about it he would apologize and say it wouldn't happen again. You just kept going on and on about it. There were even a couple of other players who stated you needed to let it go and move on. You did not and that was when Noob finally said he had had enough and was logging off. Last edit by shiner at 2016-04-13 at 9:10 PM (1x Edited) |
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 11 - 2016-04-13 at 9:21 PM
Funny, I recall a disagreement on how the rule was worded. But I guess I imagined that right? I shouldn't have to tell noob the rules was my issue. He is a regular here for years. He knows our rules. He knew if I caught him breaking a rule I would get on him for it. Other admins have said I should've just temp banned him for an hour. He understands that as an admin I will enforce rules, as well as if there is a regular I will ask them what the hell they are doing. But since you don't want to let this go. I will continue to appease to your request of continuing this conversation. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space  Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2864 |
# Answer: 12 - 2016-04-14 at 5:08 AM
We expect to be more patient with new players as there is a learning curve. We also expect our long term regulars to be vehemently compliant to our rules. Not all regulars are compliant all the time and some fall off the rule wagon. We sometimes help players back into the wagon, and let them continue to play, and get assurances of future compliance. Sometimes those players fall back off the rule wagon. They are not perfect. Sometimes that can be annoying. Sometimes we may express our annoyance. We are not perfect. The correct response was to say nothing, and to kick or temp ban the regular for violating past assurances of future compliance. I see any sassy response expressed as more lenient than that, though I recognize in a vacuum it may appear harsh if historical context and prior established rapport is omitted, or it may have actually been more harsh or longer in duration than we would like, but I was not there. Guidance for admin going forward is for less sass/harshness for sure. Guidance for regulars going forward is similarly to stay safely on the rule wagon, and keep hands and feet inside until the vehicle comes to a complete stop. As a courtesy to the other players and for the safety of our live performers there will also be absolutely no flash photography. Last edit by BitterSpock at 2016-04-14 at 7:07 AM (7x Edited) |
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| shiner Thread author Private First Class Posts: 6 |
# Answer: 13 - 2016-04-14 at 9:05 AM
Thank you for your post Spock. I totally understand what you are saying. As I said earlier, if what I witnessed with the two players on the evening of the 12th was a one time thing I would have let it go and not started this thread. It was just the way Meagamoo1996 kept going on and on about what had happened and was browbeating the players in question that made me feel like I had to speak up. While the way Noob was talked to/treated for his mistake was unnecessary and rude, I especially felt bad for the player on the Dome map who made the mistake of starting off with something other than a shotgun. He made a mistake, realized and corrected it but Meagamoo1996 would no stop attacking him for it. The poor guy apologized over and over again but she just kept on him for some reason. It was totally uncalled for. Again, I appreciate your thoughtful response. That is, in my opinion, the way an admin should behave. There are some great people in the clan and who play on the server and I just don't like seeing the experience turn bad because someone, in this case an admin, is being a jerk. Last edit by shiner at 2016-04-14 at 10:17 AM (1x Edited) |
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| shiner Thread author Private First Class Posts: 6 |
# Answer: 14 - 2016-04-14 at 9:10 AM
I won't be making additional posts in this thread. I feel like I said what I needed to get off my chest and that the matter has been seen by the appropriate people. Continuing to post in it and drag out the issue would not contribute to a healthy discussion so I want to just leave things as they are. Thank you for your time. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2864 |
# Answer: 15 - 2016-04-14 at 10:25 AM
With respect to the shotgun player. We understand the rule is new. In recognition of that we have added rule #11 which clearly explains the conditions of the change and what maps it applies to and that scrolls 2-3 times per map all the time. Additionally, there are now messages spammed added at the end of the maps PRIOR to the shotgun maps to make extra certain that the fact that the next map is a shotgun map is know to all. In this instance, Moo went above and beyond the textual bombardment of notifications and added a verbal notification as well. So again, I was not there, but there is a certain amount of frustration, when the exhaustive and repetitive assertion of the shotgun rule goes unheeded. Sometimes as admin in Teamspeak we are in utter disbelief that "sorry I didn't know" comes back. Sometimes the player comes back, still with no shotgun, and gets kicked again, even though prior to each kick a clear message is displayed "Please return with a SHOTGUN". Players are not perfect. I am fine letting a player continually be auto-kicked for their disinclination to read the provided messages. But other admin may still be annoyed by this, especially if they took extra steps to verbally warn prior to ensure that the outcome was favorable for all. We are not perfect. We do strive to present ourselves as fair and pleasant and I think for the most part we achieve that, but we are all individuals, and we are all human (or at least half human lol) and hence fallible. Sometimes players fail to see or heed warnings, and sometimes admin react to that in their own way. Going forward, lets just agree to try to improve as players and admin, and try to be more tolerant as observers of other players and admin, while each are engaged in the duties and mishaps associated with each of their respective roles. |
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| BluePhoenix Commander  Posts: 385 |
# Answer: 16 - 2016-04-14 at 3:23 PM
Shinner I know you have the best intentions with your post, but I'd like to say a few things about the incident with Noob. I don't recall the shotgun map exchange so I will stay out of that. I was present when Moo was discussing the pistol rule with Noob. From a fellow admin's perspective, the Pistol Rule has been around for as long as I can remember and it was Noob claiming ignorance or misunderstanding of the intent of the rule that caused contention. I believe Noob was fully aware of the rule and its limitations and choose not to follow it, while being witnessed by Moo and other players. After pointing out the violation, Noob became confrontational and defensive and not apologetic and remorseful in my opinion. This escalated the discussion and it was dragged out by both Noob and Moo. I'd also like to take the time here to express my continued thanks and respect for Moo admining the server. She is almost always the first of the admins online to stop playing and do the job of admining. She acts while others continue to play, often missing most of the maps in a session, just so that the rest of us can continue playing with strong admin enforcement and presence. Admins like Moo are the most important reason why players continue to visit OTaC. As you know the job of adminning is a very selfless act and requires a lot of discipline, patience and loyalty to the server and public players. We all are human, we make and learn from mistakes, but we admin for the other players on the server, not ourselves. Please give credit to Moo where it is deserved. It's because of her efforts and tenacity, that brought me to the server and prompted me to join OTaC and become a fellow admin. |
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| MrMackeyMkay BoardMod  Location: Portland OR Posts: 823 |
# Answer: 17 - 2016-04-14 at 4:21 PM
Shiner we always appreciate feedback. We also thank you for presenting your opinion in a very respectful manner. As an admin I find that I sometimes stumble into a situation where I lose my patience. I sometimes find myself at odds with someone. I find I can make statements that seem reasonable to those who are involved in the discussion I may be having with this person. Those very same statements may seem very unreasonable to anyone who is new to the conversation. I think your alert makes it clear that we need to be sure that what we say and how we say it comes across as being reasonable to EVERYONE within earshot. We will be discussing this issue at our next meeting. We want everyone to enjoy not only the game but also each other. Meagamoo is a very helpful and dedicated admin. I feel terrible to think anyone might see her as anything other than this. Again, thank you for your perspective. Thank you for speaking out. Thank you for assisting us in keeping our server a respectful and enjoyable environment. ------------------ Something Really Witty!!! Last edit by MrMackeyMkay at 2016-04-14 at 4:22 PM (3x Edited) |
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