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| Board -> Free For All -> General discussion -> Doubt about no-killing server method | |
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 SoroPrivate First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Thread - 2017-03-16 at 5:19 AM
I know that the idea behind the limitation at 25 kills on the use of automatic guns, like the well known SVT 40, is to stop the "killer machines", whose most known effect that is to frustrate less skilled players and to empty the server. It is fact that it occurs and this countermeasure is welcome. So, I'm not here to complain about this resource, but just to understand what is the method to decide what player match with the criteria, and what are this criteria, because I see some good and ancient players without these limitations. I repeat, I'm not complaining about this method, I just want to know, and knowing, maybe I'll be able to colaborate to improve it. |
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 FiveO_608Gunnery Sergeant II  Posts: 80 |
# Answer: 1 - 2017-03-16 at 6:46 AM
Soro- I'm sure Bitter will explain all of the data that goes into these decisions, but for the most part it's the consistent gameplay that affects the decision. Regular high kills (over 30), and relatively low deaths (high K-D ratio) will cause this to occur more than anything. The weapon used really doesn't matter. Some very good players would not do nearly as well with heavy machine guns. Another way this decision is made is directly by the owner, Honda, or one of the senior admins. That decision is based on their perception of the player. That may not sound fair, but they try to be. I'm sure if you provide a player name that you think is a server killer, the data can be researched to determine if you are correct. Thanks for playing! Five O |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space  Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 2 - 2017-03-16 at 6:11 PM
Five-O provides a good summary. In general we try to tailor the limits to suit the playing style of the player. Sometimes a player has a high but acceptable final score but they have really low deaths, so other players think they are hacking. So they get a Kill-Death limit but no weapon restriction. This way they have die more and players no longer think they are hacking. Some players like to OWN everyone with a specific weapon like an STG. If you are on top of the leader board and have an STG in your hands all the time, that is something we limit, so some players can't use and STG above 15 kills, but are otherwise unrestricted. Most players that are dominant tend to fall into the 25 K-D + switch to bolt/shotty at 25. Some don't have a K-D limit. We had some stricter limits but they have been normalized to the 25/25 rule. In general the method of evaluation is to look at historical match outcomes for each player. The biggest tool we have however is simply the cooperation of players to self-limit. If we see that that is the case we can remove the limits altogether. Some have actually asked to have the limits put back on because they liked the warning system as a reminder. True not everyone has a limit that could use one. If they don't play too often they really don't kill the server. If they are on constantly and dominate all the time that drives players away. So we factor that in too. The process is very subjective and there are no clear rules other than to try to balance the difficulty so strong players and weaker players can co-exist and be more competitive. We also added other "passive" features like to detect and announce when a player kills spawn or when a player gets an excessive kill rate. These help to both "guilt players into slowing down" and also serves as a "heads up " for admin to take notice of certain players. Both of these messages are not implicating a wrongful act. Only perhaps 5% of the announcements are actionable by admin, the others are perhaps a player pushing into a spawn or having a nice kill streak. Last edit by BitterSpock at 2017-03-17 at 6:32 PM (2x Edited) |
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| Soro Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Answer: 3 - 2017-03-17 at 1:47 PM
Thank you for the answer guys! |
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| Soro Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Answer: 4 - 2017-03-20 at 5:12 PM
Ok, back to the topic, I was observing some really good players like Valvenut and H8W8IN that has no restriction at 25 kills. So, if the server has, and I believe it really has, good intentions to balance the server killers, I think it should be made with clear and objective rules, like KD ratio. These two players are only two examples between some others of good players, some of them with really good ping, that has no restrictions. I totally support the restrictions, but it is not fair if it is not applied equally for all players, but becomes a result of subjective judgment. |
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| Soro Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Answer: 5 - 2017-03-20 at 5:16 PM
I was looking at gametracerk and H8 has a 15,4 kills/min while MasterofGuns (me) has 14,38, GcDarth has 14,34 and Noobville has 14,87, being the last 3 names all restricted at 25 kills. What could be the OBJECTIVE rule for this restriction? Last edit by Soro at 2017-03-20 at 5:17 PM (1x Edited) |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 6 - 2017-03-20 at 7:38 PM
With respect to H8W8In and Valve..... they did have those restrictions. But, senior admin have decided that OTaC and OTmC members should be self limiting and should not need restrictions, else they should not be members. We periodically review such players/members to see that they are not going crazy. You have to discount some of the special rules maps, where it is possible to get into the 40's easily. What I find is the moment a player has a restriction placed on THEM, the first thing they do is complain about all of the other good players that do not have a restriction on them. If you have a restriction on you and don't want to have a restriction on you. make a post to appeal the restriction and I am happy to give such players a chance to self limit. Then you can cut loose once in a while as long as you are toning it down. But that will be decided on a case by case basis. |
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| Meagamoo1996 Brigadier General I  Posts: 259 |
# Answer: 7 - 2017-03-20 at 11:26 PM
Actually that's not how the kills per minute is calculated. The game tracker is score per minute. With H8 having 15 score per minute that is 1.5 kills because we calculate a kill as 10 points. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 8 - 2017-03-21 at 4:35 AM
Yes Moo is correct about gametracker, score per minute is 10x the kills since you get 10 points for each kill, and 4 points for each assist, 15 points for each flag, a little extra for each headshot, etc.... |
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| Soro Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Answer: 9 - 2017-03-21 at 9:22 AM
Bitter, I play in the server almost all nights and I have never noticed Valve or H8 controlling their killing instincts. They both are good players, Valve specially has a very good humor, and I got nothing against anyone here, it is all about about fair play. As I said, I think the kills limit for gun restriction is a really good idea and must to be keep, but I still insist that there should be defined under a objective rule, for any players, no matter if he is otac or not, so it won't let any doubt on the subjections, and it would be one concern less for the otacs members. Think about it, I'm sure it will be very wellcomed. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 10 - 2017-03-21 at 12:17 PM
I am addressing some of this internally at the moment, be patient. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 11 - 2017-03-21 at 5:48 PM
Soro/MasterOfGuns ..... Bolt-BK had a similar thread and I responded to BOTH of you in the same reply Find it here: http://outtact.net/index.php?mod=board&action=thread&where=25 65#com6 I think you will be pleased with the outcome. |
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| Soro Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Answer: 12 - 2017-03-22 at 3:21 PM
Thank u |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 13 - 2017-03-30 at 9:17 PM
MasterOfGuns, So I see this most recent score. guid: 1620557619 kills: 032 deaths: 014 diff: 018 streak: 007 headshots: 003 epoch: 01490920286 rank: 03 map: mp_courtyard aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe guid: 1620557619 kills: 031 deaths: 020 diff: 011 streak: 005 headshots: 000 epoch: 01490921027 rank: 03 map: mp_subway aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe guid: 1620557619 kills: 050 deaths: 010 diff: 040 streak: 012 headshots: 003 epoch: 01490922031 rank: 01 map: mp_kneedeep aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe 50 kills and a 40 K-D ? Seriously? [20170330-21:18:03][mp_kneedeep][OTaC]Fi veO_608: Master...is that really self-limiting behavior? [20170330-21:18:12][mp_kneedeep]MasterOf Guns: bolt [20170330-21:18:27][mp_kneedeep][OTaC]Fi veO_608: Also self-limiting...read the post again [20170330-21:18:42][mp_kneedeep]MasterOf Guns: but dont worry in going out, this is the last [20170330-21:20:37][mp_kneedeep]MasterOf Guns: to kill or to kill [20170330-21:20:46][mp_kneedeep]MasterOf Guns: see u [20170330-21:20:48][mp_kneedeep]MasterOf Guns: LOL I know you were leaving, but that is not self-limiting. Five-O attempted to communicate that to you.... Last edit by BitterSpock at 2017-03-30 at 9:19 PM (1x Edited) |
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| FiveO_608 Gunnery Sergeant II Posts: 80 |
# Answer: 14 - 2017-03-31 at 9:15 AM
My suggestion is to put Master back on restrictions until he can show that he can control himself. His behavior is not self-limiting and will adversely affect the server. If a person has no will to control their impulses, society must take up the reins and do what the individual chooses not to. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 15 - 2017-03-31 at 1:22 PM
Let's give it a few days so I can see what happens in the general case as well as the worst case, and make any adjustments if needed based on a representative data set. I don't want a knee-jerk reaction to one map's excessive score. I also want MasterOfGuns to acknowledge our updates in this thread. |
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| honda BoardMod Posts: 495 |
# Answer: 16 - 2017-04-06 at 9:53 AM
Soro having restriction better being banned. most hardcore players have limit except members. sounds like not fair, not really, being members was instructed to have self limit not to over killed specially when we have less than 20 players and if they out of controlled I just kick or temp ban without even a single warning. and I just did it to Jerk last night ------------------ 
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 17 - 2017-04-07 at 9:15 PM
MasterOfGuns, This is a run of consecutive maps..... since self-limiting does not appear to suit you, I am putting you back in a restricted group. Lets try switch at 20 with 20 K-D max for normal ...... just like Valvenut On special maps you will simply have a 25 K-D limit and you use the weapons of the ruleset. guid: 1620557619 kills: 056 deaths: 041 diff: 015 streak: 008 headshots: 000 epoch: 01491607360 rank: 01 map: mp_dome aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe guid: 1620557619 kills: 039 deaths: 014 diff: 025 streak: 012 headshots: 001 epoch: 01491608368 rank: 01 map: mp_airfield aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe guid: 1620557619 kills: 039 deaths: 025 diff: 014 streak: 006 headshots: 000 epoch: 01491609606 rank: 03 map: mp_asylum aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe guid: 1620557619 kills: 039 deaths: 031 diff: 008 streak: 006 headshots: 001 epoch: 01491610585 rank: 01 map: mp_hangar aliases: Beer4All MasterOfGuns SameSoro Soro WhoIsMe Enjoy. Last edit by BitterSpock at 2017-04-07 at 9:18 PM (1x Edited) |
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| Soro Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 13 |
# Answer: 18 - 2017-04-10 at 5:13 AM
Agreed and accepted Just let me just explain something: in fact I was limiting myself but: 1 - I not always reached high score, in fact the last example shown was a not typical night; 2 - Some other members (Otac or not) continouslly reaches high score, and I still can't see their "self-limiting" in action. 3 - Not justifying, just explaining, some of mine "not self-limit" attitude was in favour of the team that was losing the map... That said, I still insist that the fair way would be an automatic system based on last score or KD. I not even know if it is possible to implement, but I'm sure that would be the fair way to accomodate this handicap's method. As I said in the beggining, I comprehend and agree with limit method, I think it is necessary and the unique thing that I disagree is that it is not applyed with justice for all member, be or not be an Otacs. Just taking this moment, still see many complains focused in some special names (like mine) where the same action in the same place generates wailing and gnashing of teeth while others celebrities receive zero attention. But that is another story, we don't need to discuss it here... See you on the game :-) |
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