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 [Sir]-Pingo-Master Sergeant II  Posts: 102 |
# Thread - 2016-03-14 at 4:11 PM
Was playing on your server, Castle, and the game had just started. I had a lucky spawn and moved and shot my self quickly in to enemy spawn and almost flipped it by my self, had a 10/0 streak within a few minuits. At 11 kills i got killed and spawned and killed another one (12/1) and suddenly got a warning for camping, not once, twice, and a "Pingo do you copy?". I answered saying "I move all the time" but did not get any response. Obviously, the admin giving me the warning had not spec'd me, just giving me a warning based on my score. Please, tell your admins to give warnings for what they know, not what they think. You know me, my "W" is glued to the keyboard..  ------------------ For you its, [Sir]-Pingo- ooyeah baby... Last edit by Patrik-Swe at 2016-03-14 at 4:24 PM (2x Edited)
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 Davide30541Commander  Location: OXFORD Posts: 891 |
# Answer: 1 - 2016-03-15 at 3:27 PM
i've seen that, warnings like that based on score alone. Either active admins need to pay more atention or not warn people without proof of rule breaking...  But good job In reporting yourself, you camper!!! 
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 MrMackeyMkayBoardMod  Location: Portland OR Posts: 823 |
# Answer: 2 - 2016-03-15 at 3:36 PM
I have stressed this issue Patrik. If you wish to give me the name of the admin, so that only you I (OTaC co-founder) and the concerned admin are involved, I can turn this into a "teaching" moment. Our admins try very hard to be patient and fair. Sometimes I make mistakes and don't even realize them. It helps me improve my effectiveness when I am aware of my errors. Thank you for your time Patrik. I will continue to stress this issue in the future. ------------------ Something Really Witty!!! |
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| [Sir]-Pingo- Thread author Master Sergeant II Posts: 102 |
# Answer: 3 - 2016-03-16 at 9:08 AM
Davide I kicked my my self on the butt two times, just to teach me a lesson.. MrMkay I had a very good game, so i didnt looked for who was online, if it happens again i will let you know. Thank you guys, see you at the battle field! ------------------ For you its, [Sir]-Pingo- ooyeah baby... |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space  Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2904 |
# Answer: 4 - 2016-03-17 at 1:46 PM
So I took a look at the game logs to see the historical events. Here is Pingo at the match start he is using an STG44..... admin is killeryu ..... 1457991373 KILL;Obelix72;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991377 KILL;[God]Coolio_Julio;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991382 KILL;chachitogyam;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991391 KILL;[OTaC]_curlie_;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991391 KILL;[God]Coolio_Julio;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991403 KILL;Cap-Sekker;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991404 KILL;Obelix72;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991409 KILL;chachitogyam;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; by this point Pingo is 8-0 (36 seconds into the game), he has killed: * Obelix72 twice near spawn * Coolio_Julio twice near spawn (who is in Teamspeak) * chachitogyam twice near spawn * and _curlie_ (who is in Teamspeak) 1457991470 SAY;-Pingo-;Munster, give me your mail address and i will forward all my spam to you  Then Pingo stops pushing momentarily to chat (Please note, that anyone looking at Pingo via line of sight, or spec, has witnessed an onslaught of repeat victims and sees Pingo stop moving forward, though not for a long time) Then he resumes and gets one more kill before dying..... 1457991495 KILL;Beiker46;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991522 DEATH;-Pingo-;PileDClaw666;gewehr43_silenced_mp; 1457991544 KILL;Johny_CanucD;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991550 KILL;k9arko2;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991578 KILL;Johny_CanucD;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; Killeryu seeing 12 -1 "suggests" that Pingo should move..... please note this is not a formal keybind warning.... 1457991580 say;[OTaC]killeryu;pingo time to move 1457991582 KILL;Obelix72;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991583 DEATH;-Pingo-;PileDClaw666;gewehr43_silenced_mp; Pingo sees it, and gives this response...... 1457991614 SAY;-Pingo-;Say what? Been moving all the time, please spec before giving warnings. Personally, I can see where it can be interpreted as a flip response after the please.... Perhaps: Not camping, I am pushing though trying to flip the spawn. would have been better..... So clearly Killeryu missed the response and simply asks for confirmation..... 1457991619 say;[OTaC]killeryu;pingo you copy 1457991623 DEATH;-Pingo-;TheMunsters;stg44_flash_mp; And then Pingo responds thusly, to reiterate his postion .... 1457991659 SAY;-Pingo-;I said, please spec before giving warnings, i move all the time. So far so good ...... Game resumes...... 1457991691 KILL;rickoid;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991700 DEATH;-Pingo-;[OTmC]arcadien;svt40_flash_mp; 1457991701 KILL;[OTmC]arcadien;-Pingo-;frag_grenade_mp; 1457991707 SAY;-Pingo-;aaaaahahahaha 1457991736 DEATH;-Pingo-;[SSG]Fallguy-BK-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991809 DEATH;-Pingo-;[SSG]Fallguy-BK-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991856 DEATH;-Pingo-;[SSG]Fallguy-BK-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991870 KILL;[SSG]Fallguy-BK-;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991888 DEATH;-Pingo-;[OTmC]arcadien;svt40_flash_mp; Start of another big killstreak..... 1457991924 KILL;qluser;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991953 KILL;Obelix72;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991972 KILL;TheMunsters;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457991986 KILL;TheMunsters;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; Above the Munsters has been killed by Pingo in rapid succession, so both kills are at a spawn point 1457991993 KILL;PileDClaw666;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992009 KILL;PileDClaw666;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; Above PileDClaw666 has been killed by Pingo in rapid succession, so both kills are at a spawn point and since the time diff from Munsters is short, it likely is the SAME spawn point. 1457992013 KILL;[OTaC]_curlie_;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; And Pingo does not back off, he is still watching players spawn and killing them over and over.... 1457992016 KILL;TheMunsters;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; And even gets Munsters a third time. By my math that appears to be 6 kills directly at the same spawn point, I might suggest that if the opening killstreak was not camping, this particular segment of this killstreak appears to be a violation of the camping rule. DISCLAIMER: There is a minimum recycle time if players tries to respawn as fast as possible, but if they change class or don't hit F right away, then recycle times vary, so it is hard to pinpoint how close to spawn and immediately die this is. I was not witness to the live event, only the event log. 1457992028 KILL;Obelix72;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992037 KILL;k9arko2;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992039 DEATH;-Pingo-;[SSG]Fallguy-BK-;mine_bouncing_betty_mp; 1457992059 DEATH;-Pingo-;k9arko2;m1carbine_aperture_mp; 1457992110 KILL;-Rune-;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992126 DEATH;-Pingo-;[SSG]Fallguy-BK-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992159 KILL;-Rune-;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992172 KILL;TheMunsters;-Pingo-;stg44_aperture_mp; 1457992176 DEATH;-Pingo-;Obelix72;springfield_bayonet_mp; 1457992188 SAY;-Pingo-;Switching to bolt 1457992218 DEATH;-Pingo-;TheMunsters;bar_bipod_mp; One more kill steak.... but these look spread out so fine. 1457992221 KILL;TheMunsters;-Pingo-;frag_grenade_mp; 1457992221 KILL;DJEvaz;-Pingo-;frag_grenade_mp; 1457992241 KILL;PileDClaw666;-Pingo-;frag_grenade_mp; 1457992246 KILL;[OTaC]_curlie_;-Pingo-;type99rifle_mp; 1457992278 KILL;[OTaC]_curlie_;-Pingo-;type99rifle_mp; 1457992301 KILL;DJEvaz;-Pingo-;type99rifle_mp; 1457992313 KILL;[OTmC]arcadien;-Pingo-;type99rifle_mp; 1457992318 DEATH;-Pingo-;Scorched_10;svt40_mp; 1457992329 SAY;-Pingo-;Scorched STOP RUNNING 1457992355 KILL;-Rune-;-Pingo-;type99rifle_mp; 1457992362 DEATH;-Pingo-;[OTmC]arcadien;svt40_flash_mp; 1457992394 DEATH;-Pingo-;TSDaddyo;m1carbine_aperture_mp; 1457992405 DEATH;-Pingo-;Scorched_10;svt40_mp; 1457992417 DEATH;-Pingo-;rickoid;type99rifle_mp; 1457992448 SAY;-Pingo-;GOOD NIGHT LEGI MY FRIEND Summary: I think both sides could have done things better, Pingo and killeryu ..... Determination of camping, camping spawn, versus pushing through spawn is a subjective endeavor If you are absolutely stationary... .easy. If you never stop moving .... easy. If you move, then it subjective how much and how often is enough. The 3 minutes/5 kills applies to non-spawn. For spawn you have to be pushing through. I would suggest that perhaps if you are killing the same players over and over in the spawn you allege to be pushing through, consider their perspective and perhaps push through with more zeal and haste, a slow push through a spawn may as well not be pushing at all, you are racking up repeat kills of the same player. Push in harder, you will either flip it or die trying. We want admin to be correct and their actions hold up to scrutiny. I get that. But please know that we want our players to follow rules and have their actions hold up to scrutiny as well. So while I wish killeryu had spec'ed you before asking you to move (maybe he did? Don't know), I am the same time wish that you pushed in harder to minimize repeat player spawn kills during the two spawn kill streaks. Make sense ? Wow sorry for the war and peace novel..... Feedback encouraged |
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| Reacher-7ID Private II Posts: 3 |
# Answer: 5 - 2016-03-18 at 1:33 PM
I think that was the best detailed explanation with facts to back it up I have ever seen. Another option for the attacking player is to pop smoke and fall back and go around the other side (which takes time) allowing the opposing team to regroup and shift appropriately. I tend to do this as it is more tactical sometimes |
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| [Sir]-Pingo- Thread author Master Sergeant II Posts: 102 |
# Answer: 6 - 2016-03-20 at 11:00 AM
Thank you for the chat log. Using a STG is not the right weapon to camp with, i would use a rifle for that (but i NEVER camp tho.. .The reason for me killing the same persons in spawn is that i was in their spawn trying to push it, both times. Your "math" is just what you think, still not a observation. I push hard, if i stop at one point, its never longer then a few seconds. To push harder i would need to run.. I belive that most admins that has been on OTAC for a long time know that im not a camper, and that i never camp spawn. Im always on the front line pushing, sometimes im lucky and can get in to the spawn and do some real damage (and get a good score), other times i just die a lot (when the enemies are not the moving kind). ------------------ For you its, [Sir]-Pingo- ooyeah baby... Last edit by Patrik-Swe at 2016-03-20 at 11:24 AM (2x Edited) |
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| MrMackeyMkay BoardMod Location: Portland OR Posts: 823 |
# Answer: 7 - 2016-03-20 at 11:48 AM
I believe there is a difference between intentionally camping spawn and incidentally camping spawn. Both will get you kicked. I have found that I have been shooting into spawn after taking out 2 players. An admin observing me would be justified in kicking me. Sometimes I kick myself. Other times I send an apology and back off for a bit so I can still remain to admin. Patrik, you have always been helpful. I have enjoyed reading your suggestions for improvements. I have no reason to believe you intentionally spawn camp. This is just an observation BitterSpock is making. ------------------ Something Really Witty!!! |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2904 |
# Answer: 8 - 2016-03-20 at 7:35 PM
Pingo, reviewing your historical data over many matches you seem to be a good regular. This one match only came under scrutiny because you chose to make this post to bring an admin under scrutiny (which we do take seriously), though I am unclear why his comment would have prompted such a negative reaction that a post was warranted. I pointed out that the players you were killing repeatedly were on TeamSpeak. Speculatively I can picture them (though I was not there) complaining in voice that "Pingo is killing us in spawn over and over". At that point I believe an admin should address it, though clearly we do not have the luxury of hindsight to rewind the match, and know to spec you. Either way please see this training video...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNkjDuSVXiE |
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 KiRaShiCaptain I  Posts: 177 |
# Answer: 9 - 2016-03-21 at 2:28 AM
Thanks Bitter, I now know everything there is to know about arguing in my spare time. ------------------   Server IP ____________________________ (108.61.109.21:28960) T eamSpeak IP __________________________ (108.61.238.82:9129) |
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| Davide30541 Commander Location: OXFORD Posts: 891 |
# Answer: 10 - 2016-03-21 at 7:37 AM
"dat" training video though...
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| BluePhoenix Commander  Posts: 385 |
# Answer: 11 - 2016-03-21 at 8:09 AM
2016-03-21 at 2:28 AM - KiRaShi: Thanks Bitter, I now know everything there is to know about arguing in my spare time. no you don't |
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| Davide30541 Commander Location: OXFORD Posts: 891 |
# Answer: 12 - 2016-03-21 at 11:10 AM
yes he does! |
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| [Sir]-Pingo- Thread author Master Sergeant II Posts: 102 |
# Answer: 13 - 2016-03-24 at 11:31 AM
2016-03-20 at 7:35 PM - BitterSpock: Pingo, reviewing your historical data over many matches you seem to be a good regular. This one match only came under scrutiny because you chose to make this post to bring an admin under scrutiny (which we do take seriously), though I am unclear why his comment would have prompted such a negative reaction that a post was warranted. I pointed out that the players you were killing repeatedly were on TeamSpeak. Speculatively I can picture them (though I was not there) complaining in voice that "Pingo is killing us in spawn over and over". At that point I believe an admin should address it, though clearly we do not have the luxury of hindsight to rewind the match, and know to spec you. Either way please see this training video...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNkjDuSVXiE Its all good Funny video, i love the Monty's! ------------------ For you its, [Sir]-Pingo- ooyeah baby... |
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Answers: 13
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