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 HarpyHagPrivate First Class I Posts: 11 |
# Thread - 2017-01-19 at 10:45 AM
player with a 17/1 from the same spot, admin in the game, multiple comments. No kick. Any specific reason not to kick? |
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 BitterSpockMaster of Time and Space  Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 1 - 2017-01-19 at 12:08 PM
Harpy, I wanted to investigate the logs to see what happened in the match, but I have too little to go on. Right now I am looking for a player that has at least a 17/1 sometime during the match , not sure if a final score, no player name, not mapname, no admin name, no indication if 17/1 was final score of player. So I can't validate your assertion. So please provide that if you want me to look into it. Otherwise I can give some general reasons why *I* might not kick a player who is 17/1 from the same spot automatically ... The protocol for kicking for camping is the admin must spec the player for 6 kills (violating 5) or spec the player for 3 minutes not moving from the spot with < 6 kills from that location. Please know that if a players moves to another spot that resets the timer and the kill count. If a player dies that resets the timer and the kill count. If the player is in violation they get a kick with no warning. So now here are some reasons why I might not kick a player .... 1. I am in the heat of battle and I did not notice the player or others complaining. 2. Upon death I cycle through spectate and when I arrived at the player of interest, he was moving (resetting the counts and time) , so I went back to playing the game. 3. I typed the command: !hist player .... admins see a series of characters that looks like this: ++++..++.+...++++++.+ each "+"=kill each "."=death. So ++++++ is a killstreak of 6, etc. If I typed !hist player on a person 17/1 and the command returned +++++++++++++++++. or ++++++++++++++++.+ or +++++++++++++.++++ for example, I would know that the player has died (resetting the kill counts and time) and I need not bother to spec or kick since they cannot be at 6+ kills. 4. I am busy recording and spec'ing a potential hacker, person running, using pistol outside, has 2nd chance, etc and so the camper gets a free pass since not the biggest problem at the moment. 5. I am away from the keyboard. 6. The player that made the comment about "playerX is camping" is someone that always complains about campers, and I might assume that the player is trolling or crying wolf, or at least delay my investigation of playerX. 7. The match is almost over, a kick is pointless as they can start the next match momentarily, so not worth my time to spend it babysitting a player who may not reach 5 kills or three minutes before match end, i would rather play the game. 8. The player may be new, or a regular that usually does not violate the camping rule, and I may choose to see if the camping is habitual on the next map and address it then not now. 9. The player may have been observed getting many kills prior to being in that spot and the complaining player only remembers the last few times they got killed from that spot. 10. We are not perfect. That is not a requirement to be an admin though perfection is the asymptote. Last edit by BitterSpock at 2017-01-19 at 12:11 PM (1x Edited) |
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| HarpyHag Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 11 |
# Answer: 2 - 2017-01-19 at 3:46 PM
thanks for your reply and all your points are valid. BUT and its a big but, abusive camping (in this case a corridor vantage point over a spawn area in Asylum), disrupts the game profoundly. I dont agree with you that a kick is not worth it if there is no time or w/e reason - I find more and more good and active players switch to corner camping and less movement overall. I myself started checking choke points and low visibility areas today (still have no idea where they are). In other words, although I dont think its a "camping server", its not that far from it and abusive campers must be dealt with swiftly. If you need names, its not that hard to spot them - there are not more than 8 people, staying at the same spots all the time. Personally, yes I get frustrated alot with them. I tend to move alot in order to flank because my crappy pc and crappy internet dont allow me to play bolt all the time. And these people ruin my game. |
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| FiveO_608 Gunnery Sergeant II  Posts: 80 |
# Answer: 3 - 2017-01-20 at 2:38 PM
Harpy- I won't speak for Bitter (he does fine himself), but my take on your complaint is similar to that of Bitter. If we as admins are not supplied with accurate, timely information, we cannot respond to complaints that are detrimental to the game. If an admin is in game, please do what you must to get his/her attention so that a proper spectate of the alleged offender can occur. Short of that happening, a demo can be recorded and submitted for review. Camping is a part of the game and allowable on this server. Not everyone likes that, we understand. Honda and the senior admins have agreed to keep the "5 kill/ 3 minute" camping rule in place which literally means camping is allowed. Where a player chooses to camp is up to that player. The challenge is to then eradicate the camper...as difficult as that may be. 3 minutes of game time is extremely long. I myself have set timers to some of the more experienced campers and as of this date, I found no one violating the time aspect of the rule. I really do appreciate how frustrating this issue can be for some players. I personally choose to care very little about my kill/death ratio. I try like hell to hunt the campers for the pure sport of it. Most times I am repeatedly killed for my efforts. But on those rare, sweet occasions, I plunge my bayonet into their crooked, twisted spines and I smile. I hope you can find your own corner of the game on our server that makes you smile too. Enjoy! |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 4 - 2017-01-20 at 4:11 PM
If I channel the spirit of Mackey through the medium of the this forum.... he would tell you that .... Camping is a tactic. This is a tactical server. If you can't kill the camper, you need a better tactic. Anyway, You have smoke, gas, flares, nades, and teamwork...... If you can't defeat him, just don't feed him ... .go a different way and let him sit there with no targets. |
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| HarpyHag Thread author Private First Class I Posts: 11 |
# Answer: 5 - 2017-01-20 at 5:54 PM
thanks both for your time answering this - to close the subject, I've been playing FPS games (and on this server particularly) long enough to accept camping and enjoy the precious kill of said camper. What I really wanted to point out is the once in a while obvious abuse of camping that breaks games/maps. Overall, you do a fine job - thats more or less the "corner of the game" that makes me smile. |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 6 - 2017-01-21 at 7:45 AM
Harpy, camping is not so egregious that we want to come down on people for it all the time. For example if a player is 7-1 as a final score for the whole game and they camped in the same spot all map, they are not a factor in the game. Habitual campers are more of a problem, so we try to deal with them directly by asking them to push forward more so as not to anchor spawn. The most a player would get for camping is a kick, we have never banned a camper. So reporting campers here has no altered end result. We like to be very very lenient with camping as a policy internally. The rule exists publicly so when we decide to enforce it, there is a legitimate basis for the kick. I personally only have a problem with a player on my own team camping and anchoring the spawn. I never have a problem with the opposing team camping, since I know where the camper is and I can target him or avoid him. Most people only remember campers when they are getting owned. I remember campers when I am respawning in the same spot over and over all map. Last edit by BitterSpock at 2017-01-21 at 7:46 AM (1x Edited) |
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 [Sir]-Pingo-Master Sergeant II  Posts: 102 |
# Answer: 7 - 2017-01-21 at 5:18 PM
For me its the opposite, players that keep covering the same bottle neck is making the game very static and boring and i keep dying on the same spot. Some map are designed with 2 or 3 bottle necks (Seelow for example) in the middle and that makes me die over and over at the same spot. I know you will not agree, but i wish it was concidering camping to return to the same spot after dying, even if the 3 min/5 kills has not been filled. Imo, camping is so boring, i dont understand whats fun with just sit and wait for something to show up in my sight. ------------------ For you its, [Sir]-Pingo- ooyeah baby... Last edit by [Sir]-Pingo- at 2017-01-21 at 5:18 PM (1x Edited) |
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| BitterSpock Master of Time and Space Location: Planet Vulcan Posts: 2872 |
# Answer: 8 - 2017-01-21 at 10:32 PM
Years ago OTaC used to have the rule that way .... returning to the same spot over and over is hardcore camping. But what you find is in the maps that have 3 choke points, both teams die and push to confront players at the same spot and push forward and die, and both sides think the other side is camping when they may both be pushing and and getting killed in the same spot. If camping becomes more of an issue to admin, we should just consider allowing it so the rules would be easier to explain and enforce. |
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